 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs: | Only fixing problem in NY? What about the other states? Is Verizon checking them too? | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: Only fixing problem in NY? I looked at this and by NYC's standards my fios box is grounded wrong. They ran it to a clip that's attached to the power box.
I'm not going to bother getting them out here though. I'll run a new wire out to the grounding rod. | |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
| Re: Only fixing problem in NY? said by NOCMan  :I'm not going to bother getting them out here though. I'll run a new wire out to the grounding rod. That would be wrong too, unless you are planning on bonding the new ground rod. (With much larger wire to the home's existing grounding electrode system.) | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by NOCMan :I looked at this and by NYC's standards my fios box is grounded wrong. They ran it to a clip that's attached to the power box. I'm not going to bother getting them out here though. I'll run a new wire out to the grounding rod. It's hard to tell from your description. There is a clamp made to go on the side of the Meter box. This is acceptable. However if you mean the breaker panel then no, that is not acceptable, | |
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mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA | Are they refunding the price of the free install? So that would mean well, nothing.
I really don't get this place. Seems to be a lot of Verizon "bashing" even though Verizon is doing what people have been asking for for years... providing some competition in the TV/HSI market. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Are they refunding the price of the free install? said by mglunt :So that would mean well, nothing. I really don't get this place. Seems to be a lot of Verizon "bashing" even though Verizon is doing what people have been asking for for years... providing some competition in the TV/HSI market. If only VZ would come west[and buy qwest]
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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| | raptor1418
Premium
join:2002-12-03
Denver, CO
 ·Mesa Networks
 ·Comcast
| Re: Are they refunding the price of the free install? said by dvd536 :If only VZ would come west[and buy qwest] I second that motion!! Not a real big fan of the Comcast service I have or any of the WISP's around my area. Qwest is just not an option for me since I can only get the lowest tier service even though my neighborhood is not that old. | |
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nonymousa
@comcast.net
| said by mglunt :I really don't get this place. Seems to be a lot of Verizon "bashing" even though Verizon is doing what people have been asking for for years... providing some competition in the TV/HSI market. I suspect the big red V had it coming. The following is a quote from the lightreading article (see link user NetAdmin supplied below):
"The only thing that strikes me as out of the ordinary here is that it's usually the other way around," says Heavy Reading senior analyst Alan Breznick. "The phone guys have used public services commissions for years to keep cable guys snarled up, and now Verizon's getting a taste of its own medicine." | |
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JSY
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY
clubs: | Verizon bashing has existed since they entered the DSL market. Frankly, I see the bashing going to all sides, certainly not just Verizon. | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by mglunt :So that would mean well, nothing. I really don't get this place. Seems to be a lot of Verizon "bashing" even though Verizon is doing what people have been asking for for years... providing some competition in the TV/HSI market. People want high speed internet BUT they also want it to be safe. | |
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Maggs
Premium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY
clubs: | Does verizon need to ground fiber? Since fiber is light signals does Verizon actually have to ground it. It's passive ON. If there was union contractors on this they would have done better.
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NIL ILLEGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM! | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? said by Maggs :Since fiber is light signals does Verizon actually have to ground it. Apparently so...
NYDPS officials say the grounding issue poses a "potential safety risk to the premises and its occupants" in the case of FiOS homes, according to one report sent to Verizon two years ago. "We tentatively conclude that FiOS may form an electrically conductive path both to the outside world as well as other electrically powered devices inside the building," that report stated. From »www.lightreading.com/document.as···d=162405
If there was union contractors on this they would have done better. As long as people are installing it, people will take shortcuts, union or not. Union workers are not immune from doing crappy jobs.
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Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat... | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| All ONTs in New York are installed by union techs.
This is the most telling sentence.
said by article :
Industry analysts say this issue is probably more political than it is an issue of public safety. And the point of being political is to chip away at a competitor's reputation.
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| paulme
join:2007-11-06
Kirkland, WA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| The ONT converts the light signal to something that your home can use:
Coax - for TV and/or internet.
rj45 - for internet.
rj11 - for phone.
Each of these require power. The ONT is providing it through the power connection made in the house its attached to. Before switching to fios, the power would have been provided by the service provider of each of these.
I honestly don't get why they don't ground it to the house's power, rather than doing this external grounding. | |
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tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
August 27th, @07:29PM
| Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? Must be the NY techs...
When the techs were here doing my install, they ran a #14 ground wire outside and bugged it onto my ground rod wiring. I`m not an electrician, but it looks pretty durn good to me.
no problems with getting zapped either LoL
-j
ps... somehows I think the NY PUC was prodded into investigating this... *cough* cv *cough*
edit--- just looked at the photos... there is some REAL shoddy work done in the photos... hard to believe thats a union guy, but anythings possible | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? Most codes require ground wire to be at least 10 guage. | |
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tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
August 27th, @08:32PM
| Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? said by Pathfinder :Most codes require ground wire to be at least 10 guage. Just checked again, says 12 awg on jacket, I was wrong...
I also checked out the NEC 2008.. they specify a minimum of 14awg for fiber and comms circuits. Since the input voltage and current is relatively low, I would think a #12 or 14 would be sufficient..
nec2008 quoted above... 770.100.A.3 on the first pic, and 800.100.A.3 on the 2nd
-j
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if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!) | |
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| | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? It's not the service voltage. It's foreign voltage (lightning and utility). The gauge usually allows only a certain amount of protection. Meaning the more services protected the higher the gauge needed. 10ga is the way to go. | |
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tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
clubs:
edit:
August 27th, @10:07PM
| Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? yea, #10 to the ground rod at min... I have #6 here from the main box to the rod, vz just put a bug on it for the fios with #12
so the nec code is wrong?
-j | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Grounding is not to protect from being hit by lightning. It's to dissipate the static that could attract lightning and give a low resistance path in case of a electrical short.
I learned that building a home weather station when I had to put the mast up I checked what was needed for lightning protection. | |
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| | | | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? Fiber may be different from POTS but all telephone interfaces have carbon or gas tubes in there specifically with lightning protection in mind. The ground is definitely there in those for lightning. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
August 28th, @07:57AM
| Re: Does verizon need to ground fiber? You aren't grounding the fiber. You are grounding the CATV and networking wiring for the house. TVs, VCRs, etc are notorious for leaking current to the shield of coax. By grounding the system, you give the current a path to ground with less resistance then what a human standing on carpet twisting a connector onto the wall jack would have.
In the event of a more severe problem, like a true electrical short instead of just leaking, the ground also should also be enough to trip a breaker.
The ground is there as a safety precaution for you, not the equipment or the incoming line. It will also do little or nothing for lightening protection.
The problem with the NY installs (and probably many other places) is that the grounding is not done up to code if it was even done at all. There are specific guidelines by the NEC as to how you can and can't ground something. Just finding a metal screw on the side of the meter pan, a piece of metal strapping, etc is not up to code. Splicing the ground into another ground wire I believe is generally not up to code. Just driving in a ground rod and not bonding it to the main ground rod is not permitted. | |
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rdmiller
join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA | Not clear If the Verizon ONT is connected to existing coax, which was grounded (presumably correctly) by the cable company, what exactly is the problem here? | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: Not clear Generally, the existing coax is grounded at a splitter where it comes to the house. Verizon doesn't reuse the splitter but takes the house wiring off of it to reuse leaving the existing ground on the sold splitter. | |
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| ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | The cable company NID is grounded , this must remain grounded.. this is where the coax is usually removed off cable and moved to FiOS NID. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Technically, it IS GROUNDED..... It's just it grounds right through all your expensive electronics  | |
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ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT
edit:
August 27th, @08:30PM
| whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Why the hell would customers get refunds for this problem?? The service works completely fine whether its grounded properly or not. Maybe cablevision should poney up some dough for the ungrounded coax running to my house !
This has been completely blown outve proportion.. this is so sad. | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
edit:
August 28th, @01:15AM
| Re: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat said by ITALIAN926 : Maybe cablevision should poney up some dough for the ungrounded coax running to my house ! If that is the case, you should call them and tell them. They should fix it for free because it could potentially injure you, one of their employees or a contractor.
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Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat... | |
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macrospect
All The Little Stuff
Premium
join:2005-08-25
Doylestown, PA
·Comcast
| Re: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Haha, if that were the case then Comcast should redo all 200 homes in our development. The drop comes off of the tap (100+ ft in some cases before it even enters the premise) and goes directly up 2 stories into our attics (where there are NO grounding points). Each unit [condo] has their own drop. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by ITALIAN926 :Why the hell would customers get refunds for this problem?? The service works completely fine whether its grounded properly or not. Maybe cablevision should poney up some dough for the ungrounded coax running to my house ! This has been completely blown outve proportion.. this is so sad. Oh VZ will find a way to re-acquire these funds.
"Electrical code compliance fee. . . . . . . . . . $0.64"
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Maybe it's because many homeowners will have to be home to allow vz tech's access. | |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Unacceptable Almost all those pictures were completely unacceptable work. Some were minor dings but most were outrageous. | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Another quality install from VZ union workforce??? oops, I've opened pandora's box.  | |
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| ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | Re: Another quality install from VZ union workforce??? Yea, because contractors do quality work.. :rolleyes: | |
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anon813
@verizon.net
| Grounding The cable compny has someone in their pocket doing code inspections. Im a lineworker for Progress Energy in Florida in the I-4 corridor which hapens to be lighting capital. The only time these really need to grounded is when they are placed outside, normally the inside units have 3prong plug and that is sufficient. Cable drops are grounded in case the surge comes from outside the house via the drop and that #14 groung is worthless with lighting. I must say those installations were horrible, union or not somebody is going to get written up on that quality of work. | |
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NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Grounding said by anon813 :
Cable drops are grounded in case the surge comes from outside the house via the drop and that #14 groung is worthless with lighting. It is also possible for AC voltage to be present on your cable connection due to power leakage from things like your television, Tivo, or cable box. Proper grounding is suppose to mitigate that issue to an extent.
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Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat... | |
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JSY
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY
clubs:
| I don't understand this reasoning. I mean, it's Verizon that is admitting that the installs were not up to their standard. So, regardless of who has was in their pocket - if the install wasn't up to Verizon spec, don't you think Verizon should remedy that? Same goes to TWC, Dish, Directv, etc. C'mon now. If Verizon was saying that the installs were okay and to their spec, then you'd have more of an argument. | |
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mr_slick
join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA | Why Gound Fiber? I may be mistaken, but I believe there is an actual wire embedded in the fiber cable (for strength/rigidity). This would be the logical reason for the grounding-- to protect from outside current/lightning. | |
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| ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | Re: Why Gound Fiber? no | |
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mapper
join:2008-04-07
Fairfax, VA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
| Cable does it too... While this is a safety issue, my cable company Cox Communications, brings up a RG-6 (from tap around 50 ft away) right into my house(that is before I got the Cox Phone NID installed outside my house). So shouldn't cable MSOs be blamed too for not grounding their services, especially because Cable services use the RG-6/59 power? Or do a lot of people have Cable NIDs for one service outside their houses? | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Just Verison isn't up to code? I wonder how many telco and cableco installations really are up to code. And I don't even mean current latest code...even code from 10 years ago.
I know that when I moved into my house, the existing cable drop had it's own ground rod that was not electrically bonded to the main ground rod. My guess was that it was also only 4' instead of the 6' or 8' required by code.
My parents house was the same way.
Friends of ours wasn't even grounded.
This can't be a new thing...shoddy workmanship isn't a recent development. | |
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Fios 74
@centurytel.net
| Shoddy Installs In all honesty, those installs pictured, regardless of the grounding issues, look like crap. While they may be functional, I would be ashamed as a technician to have my name tied to them. Perhaps a bit of balance between QA and productivity is needed as well as correcting the grounding issues? Just my two cents worth. | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| I don't get it. It looks like they are complaining not about grounding of the optical fiber (and any conductive messenger line), but grounding of the ONT. The ONT is a piece of equipment inside the premises, electrically connected only to other equipment inside the premises. It shouldn't need to be grounded and bonded any more than your TV or cordless telephone does.
The reasoning they follow is not that grounding is required by code, but that grounding is required by analogy to other code sections concerning network powered equipment and CATV equipment -- both of which are electrically connected to the outside world. | |
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hicks107
join:2006-10-25
Albany, NY | VZ Doesnt have a NYS video franchise That article states that Verizon has a New York State Video Franchise, which is not accurate. The company has several city and town franchises but not one for the entire state. | |
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Verizon Giving Refunds For Ungrounded FiOS Installs
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